Women at Church: Magnifying LDS Women’s Local Impact, by Neylan McBaine
In the Introduction to Women at Church, the author writes, “This book does not deal with doctrine. It is also not an attempt to argue that everything in Church practices today reflects the best of all possible worlds. I am working under two assumptions. First, I believe our living prophet and apostles are the only people who can revolutionize our current gender doctrine. Second, gender practices in the Church today are not what they can be. Thus, my approach here should be very clear: accepting the doctrine and policies we have in place in the Church today, how can we help improve gender-cooperative practices on the local levels so as to relieve unnecessary tensions caused by cultural or historically normative practices?”
The remainder of the book focuses on offering answers to that question. Sara and Kalani, two fMh bloggers, utilized the wonderful gift of Facebook Messenger to discuss the book.
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Sara: Overall, I was really happy about the book. I expected myself to have mixed feelings much more than I did, but I felt like Neylan was realistic and honest and gave clear insights and actionable advice.
Kalani: I read it under the assumption that I am a moderate feminist, and thought I would agree with everything to a greater degree. I think you are absolutely right in saying that she was realistic and honest and her advice is for sure actionable, but as I read I was surprised that I felt a lot more sadness than I expected at realizing how much we truly have to maneuver and beg and plead and jump through hoops in weird ways to ask for things that men can categorically deny us for no other reason than because they have the authority to do so and have the ability to value their own judgments over those of the women they serve.
I think the book’s greatest strength is that it is written in a way that is unthreatening to the general population, and will thus be widely read. And I absolutely think that many of the small, easy fixes that she talks about will be brought to light and at least discussed in wider circles because of the book. I think that she is going to get into homes that currently take the “homosexuals, intellectuals, and feminists are of the devil” stance because, like she says, none of these fixes require us to examine whether or not the system is broken…we just have to fix the things we can and live with the things we can’t.
I kind of see her suggestions as the bare minimum necessary to keep the more liberal members of the congregation from leaving in droves. It’s more of a bandaid on the situation, but it will keep us from bleeding out before an actual fix occurs.
Truthfully, I’m really surprised at my reaction. I’ve never been one to push for a systemic overhaul, but reading this book kind of moved me in that direction. I’m really, really surprised at how sad I felt reading example after example of how women have to “go around” or “find other channels” or “be ok with letting someone else voice the idea” to get their point across.
Sara: I totally feel you on those points. Her suggestions of solutions really serve to highlight the problems all the more — that women can always be overruled and that their contributions are often overlooked.
My satisfaction was more with the book itself and how balanced I felt it was. The book didn’t leave me any more satisfied with the system we’ve got in the church right now. Not at all.
Did it make me more hopeful? … In a way, yeah. I’m really looking for ways to stay and find health and fulfillment in that process. The book gave me some ideas.
Kalani: Agreed.
Sara: But at the same time, the hope I derived from the book is also tempered by real life examples of women trying to change things in small ways and getting shot down. In the day after I finished the book, I heard from a mom who had held her baby during its baby blessing and then been complained about to the stake president, who then notified all the bishops in the stake that mothers aren’t allowed to do that. I also heard from a woman whose daughter has autism and is afraid to be baptized in the water and wants her mom to stand in the water with her, but the mission president (who technically presides over this baptism because the girl is nine years old) won’t allow it. Won’t allow her to just STAND IN THE WATER. And so the girl isn’t getting baptized. Adhering to tradition — not doctrine, not even policy, but TRADITION — is considered more important than a saving ordinance for this daughter of God. It’s mind-boggling to me. And I felt like Neylan shared plenty of similar examples where you can play the game and do your best, but there are no guarantees that you’ll be heard or respected as you try to make even the smallest, most justified change. That’s the reality.
Kalani: Yes. Yes to all of that.
I feel like the book will help to bridge the gap between more liberal thinkers and their TBM friends and family. I really think this is a “safe” book from many standpoints…the content, the fact that it is being sold at Deseret Book, the fact that she works for the church…all lead to its overall credibility and I think it will help people at least get conversations started in a non-confrontational way.
Sara: I think that’s an important consideration. This will be much more appealing to a moderate or orthodox audience just because of its faithful underpinnings. But that said, it will still present challenges to that audience — and I mean that in a good way. It doesn’t coddle that audience. It really asks for open-mindedness and reflection and humility. I think that’s a strength, but it also means that some readers will be turned off. It’s dense enough and challenging enough that I imagine some readers will just bow out and say, “These silly women, complaining about nothing.” But for those who care and are open to constructive criticism of church culture and policy, Neylan does a great job of defining the problem and making the case that people ought to care.
Kalani: I went into this read thinking that this book would be something that fosters cohesiveness, and I really think it will do that. But, I’m now wondering if it will also have a polarizing effect. Reading it really made me realize how deeply I feel that something about the system is wrong. I’ve been really hesitant to even think that — let alone speak it. But hearing so many stories compiled all in one place and realizing that in order to work within the current framework women have to contort and bend over backwards and look for back door ways to get their information across, and even after all of that there is still no guarantee that they will be heard, I can’t help feeling like something about this system isn’t right. Even as a defender of the faith and a faithful, active member, I see more and more that this can’t be what Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ envision for the church.
Sara: I’m right there with you. I feel like the current structure can be accepted as a worthwhile place on the pathway of progression to be a Zion people, a place that has certain advantages and disadvantages and that required members to stretch and learn and grow. But all is definitely not well in Zion at this point. I appreciate that “Women at Church” acknowledges the problems and takes them seriously. I hope that readers will as well.
For those who haven’t read the book, I think it’s valuable to note that the book is written both for people who don’t understand the gender issues in the church and would like some more insight into what all the hubbub is about, and then also written to those who DO understand the existing problems and want to do something a about them at a local (ward, branch, stake) level. And straddling those two audiences is quite a task.
So in chapter 4, McBaine lists six contributors or, as I see it, six categories of reasons that Mormon women experience difficulty with the church from a feminist perspective. They are:
1. disconnect between lived experience and Church experience
2. the importance of diverse visual representation in modern culture
3. misuse of councils and Church structure
4. rise of single sisters
5. greater awareness of history
6. disconnect between doctrine and practice of equality
I’m curious to know what you think of that list — how accurate you think it is — and how any of those categories ring true (or don’t ring true) for you. Any thoughts on that?
Kalani: Really, I think everything she touched on was spot-on. I agree that these are the main problems many women come up against that makes reconciling the church experience with their understanding of the gospel a challenge.
Sara: In the list of contributors/categories of things that cause pain, I related to some and not to others, but the biggest source of pain for me personally was missing, and that was the female inferiority taught in the doctrine itself. And I’m guessing that that was too big of a topic to tackle and maybe too controversial as well, but to me … The way women are instructed and the covenants we make in the temple, the fact that priesthood ordination is off limits to me, the fact that my husband is supposed to preside over me because he’s male and I’m not, the lack of interest in or worship of our Heavenly Mother, the doctrine of plural marriage and the way modern scripture (section 132 specifically) treats women as property, the famine of scriptural heroines … That stuff is the real cause of my pain and discontent, so much more than an insensitive bishop or the # of women who speak in conference. I don’t think it’s fair to criticize this book for not addressing that stuff, because it doesn’t claim to do that, but I did at least want to point out that my pain and the specific pain of many women I know and love isn’t really addressed here. It’s outside the scope of this book. Which makes the suggestions inside the book of limited utility, of course.
But I feel like if I stop expecting the book to be something it’s not trying to be and just judge it based on what it’s trying to be, it comes across pretty well and is likely to be helpful for a lot of women. If Neylan’s advice is seriously considered by bishops and stake presidents who read it, I think there will be many positive results. The irony of course is that THOSE readers — the ones with institutional power — have more power to enact the changes she suggests, while women who read will have more hit-and-miss results because their efforts have to receive approval from priesthood leaders.
Kalani: Yes. Totally, totally agree. And I think part of the reason that I was so surprisingly sad throughout the book is because, like you said, female inferiority is woven into the DOCTRINE of our church, and although I was previously cognizant of that, the repeated and varied examples of how men view women as inferior — and how WOMEN view women as inferior — really hit home with me. It’s so much more than, “here, have a bigger budget for activity day girls” or “here, you can speak last in sacrament meeting.” It’s the underlying knowledge that present in our core beliefs is the idea that priesthood power trumps all, and women are excluded from the opportunity to wield that power, thus making us automatically and irrevocably inferior within the current structure of the church.
Sara: Amen.
Kalani: I know she intentionally said she was addressing Americans, but I just want to throw in because this is a global church, that I have personally come across various culture-specific issues that affect the women of those cultures. And, as I have only lived in the US, all of my experiences are with women who also call America home. I know she couldn’t include every subset within American culture in her book, but I do think it’s worthy to note that her audience is definitely white America. At least that was my impression.
Sara: For sure. It didn’t tackle cultural or racial differences in this conversation, though there were a few observations about how the church operates in other countries.
I noticed one intersectionality fail in particular, not from Neylan, but from someone she quoted. At the opening of chapter two, she quoted general RS president Belle Spafford. Part of the quote says, “Today a woman’s world is as broad as the universe. There’s scarcely an area of human endeavor that a woman cannot enter if she had the will and preparation to do so.” She said this in 1974, when black women weren’t able to attend the temple or make temple covenants, which had serious implications for family togetherness and individual progression in the eternitites. It highlights to me how church leaders can talk about will and preparation and obedience and faith as the only prerequisites to service or blessings, but things like race and gender are these overlooked, forgotten conditions that we pretend don’t exist or matter.
Kalani: There was only one place in the book where I felt like Neylan really missed the mark. In chapter 12 when she addressed handling disappointments, she shared a quote by Sis. Holland that basically says that when women are feeling mistreated it is because someone is not living the gospel — and I agree with that. However, Sister Holland then says,
“Somewhere, somehow, promises have not been kept or obligations have not been honored, and thus the hurt. But that is not a priesthood problem. The most we can say is that it’s a man or woman problem. Thus, the responsibility is on us all, male and female, to live as section 121 prescribes and as every other Christlike example requires.”
In my notes next to this statement I wrote:
“No. It is a man or a woman problem when that man or woman has no power over the other person. When the hurt is directly because one person is powerless, it becomes a priesthood problem.”
I think the assertion that all issues arise because of personality differences or because someone is not living the gospel is problematic. I know that she is trying to stay within the framework of the existing system, but to assert that it is only a personal issue when one group is systematically oppressed seems a faulty line of thinking to me.
Sara: I completely agree. Most of the suggestions she makes for improvement are adaptations to the proscribed way of doing things. They are deviations from the system and the approved, sanctioned way of doing things. And on one level, that’s tough because our culture of obedience is not big on deviation. But it’s also a problem that the deviations are required, and the system itself contributes to that.
Did anything stand out to you as things you really liked or that you felt were particularly useful?
Kalani: “Diversity means that difference does not have to breed disunity. In the spiritual realm, diversity is the glorious equation of difference coupled with loyalty and commitment.”
“Diversity is the freedom to answer another’s needs in a way that is different from our own.”
This was my favorite idea from her book. I think so many miscommunications could be rectified if we truly recognized the gift that diversity brings and understand that answering another’s needs in a way that is different from our own is not only ok, but necessary and good and right. What a freeing concept!
What did you find most useful or insightful?
Sara: I appreciated her use of real-life examples. There was the one where she talked about a stake forum on gender issues, with thoughts from the stake relief society president, the woman in the stake who suggested the forum, the stake presidency member who was asked to moderate the forum, and a participant. I thought it was really helpful to see the same occasion from a variety of perspectives, and it sounded like the forum was full of honesty and success. And that’s just an example — there were several other case studies from people who had encouraging experiences as well as disappointing experiences.
I also thought that her four-part approach to finding solutions — Prayer, People, Process, and Perseverance — had a lot of good suggestions, specifically about asking the right questions and being thoughtful about who you approach with concerns/ideas and how you approach them.
And I’ll toss in a few favorite lines from throughout the book, just to give readers a sense of what to expect (and these are all quotes from Neylan).
“For some, increasing visibility, voice, and usefulness on the local levels is playing whack-a-mole at symptoms. They believe this approach pushes aside the root cause of some women’s struggle because it doesn’t unseat men from having priesthood responsibility for women. I am convinced, however, that we can ease these adverse symptoms to a point where more women can be at peace with our current structure as we look to continued prophetic guidance.”
“I believe Jesus Christ was perfect — but not because He never got mad or always made everyone feel good. He didn’t. He was perfect because He was the most grown up grown-up who has ever lived. His responses to people and situations were consistently mature, principled, and selfless. In this way, He is our best model for any conversation each of us might have about women in the Church.”
In response to those who would be uncomfortable with a mother participating in her baby’s blessing: “These responses are understandable, but we also must again ask ourselves what is accomplished by alienating a woman for whom such participation is important. Telling her to just get in line isn’t only uncharitable, it’s unnecessary.”
“New cultural practices don’t just spring out of the ground. The way we shift culture is to create culture, to offer another version of a practice, another way to show obedience to the word of God. And any other version starts with a vision of how things could be.”
I think that last quote is the hopeful message of this whole book, for me. It’s encouraging to feel like I can have a hand in creating a new culture in the church, even in a small way, because those small changes add up. If there are a few dozen women who feel emboldened to participate in their baby’s blessings, and if a good percentage of those women are supported by their bishops, then the precedent that could set in those wards, the example it could show for the children and teenagers and adults in those wards, could spread in the coming years. If similar things happen with ward leadership opportunities and stake-level events and Young Women programs, etc., then the culture can be impacted. And of course, there are downsides and shortcomings with this approach, but I think it’s accessible for a lot of people and can have a cumulative effect.
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Women at Church is available for purchase through Greg Kofford Books, Deseret Book, and Amazon.